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Mitt and Rudy's Bad Argument: The YouTube Dodge

Application of  debate skills to the debate about the September 17 CNN/YouTube Debate reveals that the Giuliani and Romney campaigns are making the worst possible argument for dodging the debate.

Mitt Romney's spokesman, Kevin Madden, cited a heavy fund-raising schedule and a Giuliani source was reported saying, "We have serious scheduling issues. That's prime fund-raising time."

The worst argument to make is one that can be easily turned around -- and the argument that the debate would interfere with fund raising is backwards. Debates can be powerful fund-raising devices, especially if the campaign makes an effort to leverage the high visibility with meet ups, debate watches, and other forms of events and communication that use the debate as a vehicle for solicitation. Plus, free national TV time is "priceless." There is also a very high opportunity cost to ignoring or alienating a source of millions of dollars and volunteers.

The scheduling argument makes even less sense when you consider that the supposed alternative might be December, a month that also falls at the end of a fund raising quarter, is already crowded with holiday activity, and may include a mid-December Iowa caucus. Even a high school novice debater should be quick to say, "Not unique and turn: scheduling difficulties are an ever present fact of campaign life and only increase the closer you get to an election day."

Toss in the basic debate, life and campaign skill of rescheduling less important conflicting events, and the link between schedule problems and the YouTube debate is completely severed.

If application of elementary debate technique reveals that the "reason" these campaigns gave for dodging the debate was actually a pathetic excuse, the question then becomes, "What's the real reason Giuliani and Romney want out?"

The speculation that has filled every nook and cranny of the left and right blogospheres and political debate media the last couple of days has centered around a fear these candidates might have, either of the questioners,  the question selection process, or the way the debate would be spun and reported by the "liberal media." Because of the explosion of pixels discussing this angle I will simply refer you to del.icio.us where, if you search for "debatescoop youtube GOP" (if you use del.icio.us please add those tags to any stories on the subject that I have not cataloged) you will find documentation of the following: the debate, even within the GOP blogosphere, is being won by those arguing that, even if there is risk in appearing, the greater risk is in being perceived as afraid to stand up to critics.

There is likely to be at least as much opportunity for rhetorical gain as there is risk in a YouTube debate. The questions in the last Monday's Democratic YouTube debate were no more pointed or difficult than those Britt Hume and the FOX panel asked of the GOP candidates in  May. Furthermore, CNN and YouTube have nothing to gain by trashing the GOP candidates. They want their format to be seen as successful and friendly enough that people from both parties participate, watch, submit questions and debate. They have an investment in this approach and they need for it to pay off in the long run. Plus, the chances are that the controversy over GOP participation will have a further "moderating" effect on CNN's question choices. Heck, a week from now ABC will use viewer video questions in the GOP debate from Des Moines and ABC is even letting your vote influence which questions they will use much to the delight of the quite liberal Jeff Jarvis. The YouTube user community is slightly more Republican than Democratic, too. Finally, "liberal" questions, or questions the left would love to ask are just an opportunity for GOP candidates to throw red meat to their primary voters. Candidates who can play along with a "24" episode question set and advocate waterboarding or that we "double Guantanamo" should have no unique problems with a citizen video.

To find the real explanation for Romney and Giuliani's campaign strategy I suggest looking at what is not being said. That brings us right back to scheduling, fund-raising, free media, and fear -- but from a different perspective.

September is end of quarter fund-raising time for Giuliani's and Romney's opponents, too. The two biggest threats,  Fred Thompson and John McCain, need a big September.  Fred Thomson's campaign has a September launch date. He may make it into the September 5 FOX debate in New Hampshire, but the front runners might prefer that Fred rely more on reruns than on new episodes every couple of weeks. If the McCain campaign turns around, it won't likely be until September since the public and the media are in vacation mode until after Labor Day.

Evidence suggests that the fund-raising boost of debates is relatively greater for "lower tier" candidates, too. Underdogs also get a relatively bigger boost in coverage and stature from free network media than do front runners. Giuliani and Romney get plenty of free media without debates. The media might love the chance to make their narrative "fresh" with the plot twist of a McCain comeback or the storyline of a fast "start" by Fred Thompson. McCain did well in the earlier debates according to the media. It will be easy for them to declare him a winner if they are so inclined. Stories describing how Fred Thomson's debating style is polished by his acting experience also write themselves.

It's fear of falling, not of debating, that usually motivates front runners to dodge debates. Strategically, they may have a good argument. It's just not one they dare make in this debate about the YouTube debate. Instead they point to schedulers and snowmen.

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MoveOn.org praised the Democrats' decision to not debate for Fox news.  This was their reaction... I have taken the liberty of adding symmetry to the text:

“We hope this sets a precedent for all Republicans (Democrats)– that CNN (FOX) should be treated as a left-wing (right-wing) misinformation network, not legitimized as a neutral source of news,” said Eli Pariser, Executive Director of MoveOn.org Civic Action. “Mitt Romney (John Edwards), Random Moral Majority Hack (Harry Reid), the Nevada Republican (Democratic) Party, and grassroots progressives across the nation deserve credit for standing up to CNN's (Fox’s) left-wing (right-wing) agenda.”  Mitt Romney (John Edwards) had announced he would not attend the CNN (Fox) debate—and yeste rday Random Moral Majority Hack (Nevada Senator Harry Reid) sent shockwaves through his home state when he said publicly, "I don't like CNN (Fox)."

I am sure I just missed the debatescoop analysis about why it was bad for debate, democracy, and the American Way that the Democrats wouldn't debate on FOX... 

Surely you wouldn't chastise Republicans after remaining silent about Democrats' refusal to debate on Fox?

Right?

by michael on 07/30/2007 02:51:02 AM EST

Is about the reason the front runners are bagging this debate.

The left wing blogosphere lobbied, successfully, and persuaded the Dems to refuse a FOX sponsored debate.

The right wing blogosphere is lobbying to get their candidates to accept the CNN/YouTube debate.

I argued here that the reason Mitt and Rudy are skipping this is tactical and has to do with the dynamics of who is leading within the party and who debates benefit (relatively).

I make no comments chastising anyone about what's good for democracy here.

DebateScoop welcomes analysis (anyone can write a diary and I promote good ones to the front page)  of the question of whether the Dems should do the FOC/CBC debate. I had no time to write anything when the issue was hot. I think a lot could be written that went one step (or more) deeper than the partisan hackery of political blogs and the "let's be bipartisan" vacuous stuff of the Broder-like pundits.

Be the debater you want to see.

by Ross Smith on 07/30/2007 08:52:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Actually, Michael, the GOP including Romney did raise a stink about the Fox debates.
http://electioncentral.tpmc afe.com/blog/electioncentra l/2007/jul/30/flashback_rom ney_denounced_dems_who_skip ped_fox_debate_as_cowards

My take and perhaps most of the nation's as well there is question of degree of slant that is critical to address.  While you can take individual stories at CNN and say they have a liberal slant, you don't have the overwhelming thrust from your boss telling you to write an ideology to supercharge the ratings and revenues.  Also, Fox is overwhelmingly right wing on a person by person basis.  The primary voice of liberal values on Fox (Colmbs), in sharp contrast, is by most all accounts somewhere between reserved and silent.  He is certainly no Hunter Carlson, who gets to give right-wing commentary about the day's events without rebuttal.  And Bill O'Reily is more inflamatory and right wing on air by leagues than any CNN correspondent.  Third, I haven't done a statistical analysis--but I'm confident that the advertising on Fox probably demonstrates a right wing slant, while CNNs advertising will be far less ideological.  So you're right there is bias at both locations, however the bias expressed on air at CNN is 10-20% of what is expressed on air at Fox.  

I suggest looking to the video Outfoxed as a starting point.  Some previews are available on YouTube.

by compassioninpolitics on 08/01/2007 12:41:12 PM EST

The Fox Attacks website has a short rundown of the systemic process of bias on Fox @ ( http://foxattacks.com/facts .php )

Happy reading...

On a side note..Ross, I think your argument about the possibility of moderating the questions may be correct.  If CNN succumbs to these tactics, I believe they've severely compromised their integrity and journalistic cred. (even if Michael might attempt to argue that they don't have any)

by compassioninpolitics on 08/01/2007 12:56:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
so i take it that there was, in fact, no chastising, or, if you prefer, poking at, questioning, analyzing, complaining about, quibbling with respect to, making arguments against the Democrats by debatescoop when they all refused to debate at Fox?  none?  well that pretty much speaks for itself.

The language above includes 3 times calling it "dodging the debate" and that's not intended in a good way, as "dodging" mi ght occur in dodgeball, say.  It wasn't dodging when the Democrats did it, in fact, it wasn't anything when they did it. 

Hey, why are we sure it was the Democrats who dodged the Fox debates even?  I think there is some lovely propaganda coming out soon from Greenwald/MoveOn explaining how it was all a Karl Rove and Rupert Murdoch, who are having an illicit sexual affair, machination to make the Democrats look bad.  Look, youse iz whut youze eats and a steady diet of Michael Moore and Robert Greenwald just supersizes stupidity.  A greater diversity of analysis and opinion might help  shed that extra ideology hanging like cottage cheese to the thighs of your thinking. 

Okay, okay, debatescoop didn't write that shunning the far-left mouthpiece CNN "debates" would be bad for democracy.  Nor did it write that it would be against The American Way or even bad for debate.   I grant that those were not exact descriptors of the nature of the criticism.  But, you know, writing that Giuliani and Romney were offering "pathetic excuses" and were acting out of "fear" and their decisions "make no sense" and they risk appearing "afraid to stand up to critics" is, by any understanding, "chastising" them.  Perhaps even "flogging" or "excoriating&q uot;. 

And when the Democrats as a whole dodged the Fox debates, debatescoop wrote, well, nothing.  The democrats were not dodging, they were not offering pathetic excuses, they weren't risking appearing to be "afraid to stand up to their critics".  Your response indicates that you think they were, in fact, doing the right thing.  That is not fair, balanced, or an honest analysis, it is partisan crap.

Look, my point is NOT that everyone must adhere to the NPOV.  I appreciate Christopher Hitchens,  Anderson Cooper, and Neil Cavuto.  I can even occasionally stomach Bill O'Reilly, the New York Times, and Noam Chomsky.  But the market is awash in partisan, nitpicky, knee-biter, perspectives.  Debatescoop seems to have amazing brainpower and experience as an engine.  Why is it being used to run to the corner store to pick up some cigarettes for the candidate's wife?

by michael on 08/01/2007 01:34:19 PM EST

DebateScoop is not yet a full time, much less every week site of commentary. We are trying to build it.

The absence of commentary here about any one event or issue related to debates is not evidence that we do not care. Or of anything about cigarettes.

You are a bright person who writes good stuff.

Call me or e-mail me. We'll talk.

But do not treat me like some two bit e-debate moron.

Be the debater you want to see.

by Ross Smith on 08/01/2007 02:40:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The criticism of Rudy and Mitt was of their campaigns argument. Scheduling: not unique, no link, and turn.

Their fear is a typical and often sensible fear front runners have: a fear of debates' letting the challengers back into the game.

Fear is not a bad thing. It saves the lives of the sensible.

My criticism also applies to critics who argue that they fear the questioners and the format.

Be the debater you want to see.

by Ross Smith on 08/01/2007 02:44:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Writing as I did that there is a risk of being perceived as afraid to stand up to critics is not "chastising" -- it is simply predeicitve of a probability of a negative event. More of a warning if anything.

Be the debater you want to see.

by Ross Smith on 08/01/2007 02:48:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]