DebateScoop.org: Liveblog - Nevada Democratic Debate

Liveblog - Nevada Democratic Debate

By Tim ODonnell 01/15/2008 09:04:48 PM EST

See below for the live blog of the Nevada debate.

Tags: Nevada, Obama, Clinton, Edwards, debate

< Dysfunctional in Myrtle Beach -South Carolina's GOP Debate | Debate Shifts >

Liveblog - Nevada Democratic Debate | 151 comments (151 topical, 0 hidden)

Clinton and Obama put race issue to rest (none / 0)

Hopefully this will put to rest the media and moderators efforts to stir up racial animosity where there truly isn't any. Let's get to the substance.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:07:43 PM EST

Right to race... (none / 0)

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:07:51 PM EST

Obama doesn't take Russert's bait (none / 0)

More questions, this time from Russert, trying to stir racial division. Obama does a great job reiterating what he had just said about denouncing campaign staffers and supporters that brought some of these questions. I really like Obama's decisive answers to these questions.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:12:15 PM EST

Clinton dodges the... (none / 0)

Johnson question.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:14:52 PM EST

: Good follow up by Russert to push the... (none / 0)

...question a second time.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:15:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Format influences substance (none / 0)

The fact that they are seated so close to each other makes it difficult to attack the opponent. Edwards, for example, is taking a much less aggressive stance toward Clinton (so far).

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:17:40 PM EST

: But that might be (none / 0)

...because that didn't work so well in New Hampshire.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:18:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

GOTCHA! (none / 0)

I think Russert is winning this debate, but I think Brian Williams can still pull it out.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:19:56 PM EST

: LOL (none / 0)

Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:20:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Substance, any time soon? (none / 0)

Question about Obama's comment in last debate about Clinton's likability -- who cares?

All the candidates starting to be frustrated by the questions and trying to bring the debate back to substantive questions.

20 minutes into the debate and still no questions about any policy issues.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:20:35 PM EST

: Debate Topics Picked by? (none / 0)

The candidates. Williams and Russert have focused on this for the first 30 minutes because that's where the campaigns pushed them since New Hampshire.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:23:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"Hillary" (none / 0)

The problem is in the use of her first name. Obama does this a lot. For example, in New Hampshire, he called her "Hillary" three times while she calls him "Senator Obama" (when she uses a name). He would be well advised not to refer to her by her first name. That's the reason Rich wrote what he wrote.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:20:52 PM EST

: Barack and John (none / 0)

She has used their first names on occasion in this debate.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:32:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Over/Under is 40 minutes (none / 0)

before a question of substance. I have the over. Actually, I will be shocked if there are any questions of substance. It is harder for Russert/Williams to score GOTCHA! points that way.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:23:17 PM EST

: Format may help (none / 0)

At some point the candidates are scheduled to ask each other questions. Maybe some relief from this non-debate.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:26:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Clinton starting to bring in her issues (none / 0)

Despite the resistance by the moderators to asking questions about substance, Clinton has finally started making her case. Interesting to hear her talk about "vision" and "ideas".

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:25:02 PM EST

Meet the Press, July 2008 (none / 0)

Russert puts up Hillary's quote about whether Obama is "prepared" to be President and her unwillingness to just say "yes." Russert asks how Hillary can support Obama as the candidate now. That's great GOTCHA! stuff. It kills a good five minutes of airtime.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:26:49 PM EST

Candidates? (none / 0)

what makes you most qualified to be Homecoming King/Queen?

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:28:35 PM EST

Greatest Weakness? (none / 0)

Obama: "I'll lose paper"??? They've had months to prep for this and that's the best answer he could come up with? He needs to connect with voters more - disorganization doesn't do it.

Edwards: Passions and emotions? How does that work? Bad decisions? That's an asset, but he needs to connect the dots to assure us he won't be guided by emotion.

Clinton: Impatience. That's a good answer. She turned the negative into an asset.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:30:10 PM EST

Greatest Strengths and Weaknesses (none / 0)

Obama - solid, genuine and succinct answer

Edwards - pretty good on "strength" but he's really trying to show another strength by saying his weakness is basically empathy

Clinton - decent, but long on her strength, her weakness was nice, too - impatience explaining some of the characteristics people don't like about her

First real argument - Clinton seizing on Obama saying he isn't a very organized executive, saying how management and operational skills are important. Uses Katrina as an example.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:31:34 PM EST

False information in the internet. (none / 0)

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:33:50 PM EST

: Foul ball! This follows the previous 30 minutes.. (none / 0)

and is not a question worth asking. AND, it hurts Obama more than it helps him. Not really fair unless they also note falsehoods circulating about other candidates.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:36:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Lies on the Internet (none / 0)

Crucial issue. Can someone explain to me why this kind of question belongs in a political debate?

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:34:48 PM EST

Internets rumor about beating your wife (none / 0)

Senator Obama, how can we be sure that you are not a Martian? I read it on the internets.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:35:17 PM EST

Sorry to be repetitive, Steve (none / 0)

GOTCHA!

Now its a campaign issue. Obama answered it. Cue Mickey Kaus to write that Obama was not forceful enough in his denial. Maybe Obama is a Martian after all. How would a true Martian have answered the question ... pretty much like Obama did, right?

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:37:10 PM EST

Is there somewhere I can apply... (none / 0)

...to get those 35 minutes of my life back. Looks like you're in pretty good shape on the over Frank.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:37:42 PM EST

This is more fun commenting (none / 0)

Then crying in the fetal position in the corner while I scream at the TV. Thanks for accommodating me, Tim.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:40:00 PM EST

There is this thing... (none / 0)

...called YouTube. You could do both! : )

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:41:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Good one (none / 0)

One technological leap at a time for me.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:42:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I may have lost the over in the last minute (none / 0)

Vegas is so sharp about setting lines.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:41:29 PM EST

Economy Question (none / 0)

A somewhat obscure economic question. This is a pretty good one for HRC though, she shows off her detailed knowledge and understanding, but also manages to bring the topic back to mortgages.

Edwards is also bringing the issue back to his basic economic critique - middle class anxiety. He passes up the opportunity to really turn up the economic populism of the past few weeks of his campaign. Doesn't mention "corporate greed."

Obama moves this question to energy. Wise strategy for all three of them.

It's hard for this question to generate much difference between the candidates, though. Anyone in favor of unregulated sovereign wealth funds?

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:45:03 PM EST

What is the topic? (none / 0)

Mortgages? They are all over the place. Clinton seemed to have the sharpest and most thoughtful answer, but it seems clear that this issue hasn't made it to the briefing books.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:45:41 PM EST

Bankruptcy Vote for Edwards (none / 0)

I guess he gets points for honesty, but at some point, all these mistaken votes (Iraq, too) sort of call into question his sincerity and credibility a bit. I was for the bankruptcy bill before I was against it.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:47:08 PM EST

Obama is accused of being all style, no substance (none / 0)

But can you blame him when this is the vast majority of the tone of questions from the media? Any substantive answer usually gets ignored with follow ups.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:49:16 PM EST

Bankruptcy Vote for Clinton (none / 0)

HRC gets same credit for honesty. Amazing that Edwards didn't mention it didn't become law. Did she say she was glad it didn't become law? Why did she vote for it, and then be glad it didn't become law? Curious.

Rest of her answer is strong. Great explanation of where we are going now. Reference to "Black and Brown" groups very strong. Analysis of how those groups are disproportionately affected, really solid.

This is the second time she's mentioned going door-to-door or visiting homes in Nevada.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:51:06 PM EST

: Yep - she knows her audience. (none / 0)

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:52:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Bankruptcy Vote for Obama (none / 0)

Soft pitch for Obama. He didn't have the chance to vote on the bill in 2001, so we won't know for sure, but now he's against it.

Strong use of narrative as a way to make his case about middle class relief. Ties it to a specific policy he has proposed.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:52:46 PM EST

Tax Code Question for Obama (none / 0)

Not his best moment. Halting a few times. Uses Warren Buffet as an example for evidence. One of the few times he doesn't do an effective job of really connecting to the audience.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:54:46 PM EST

Halting and long winded. (none / 0)

Arguments effectively communicated to your audience per minute are not his strength.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 09:56:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Tim channeling Ross (none / 0)

Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:58:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: Yeah, but ... (none / 0)

Does Obama come across poorly to audience members not deeply knowledgeable of some of these substantive questions? Is his bigger obstacle to sound "eloquent" or whatever code word Bill Bennett used? Does this contrast Hillary's specifics that may sound like she is too scripted?
Obama sounds like Einstein compared to Bush in 2004. That did not lose Bush the election.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:00:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]

The 800 pound gorilla (none / 0)

I don't understand why the current President is never mentioned. I know why GOP candidates avoid the subject. I don't know why the questioners in those debates avoid that issue when GOPers then talk about "change." But, why in the world don't any of these Dems contextualize their answer as reversing Mr. 25% approval?

Oops, Bush gets mentioned when it regards his magical tax cuts.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 09:55:20 PM EST

Interest Rate Question for Clinton (none / 0)

Nice job of making a relatively complex policy question understandable - can make payments now, but not in the future when they go up. Freeze solves.

She uses gestures effectively when describing interest rates going up.

She moves to a general discussion of her recent stimulus package proposal. She has examples for each point, ex. LA workers installing solar panel.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:57:56 PM EST

Unbelievable (none / 0)

That Brian Williams has the nerve to criticize the questions of the candidates...

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 09:59:35 PM EST

Edwards question to Obama (none / 0)

Why do people give money to campaigns? Seems like a soft ball. Are there follow ups?

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:01:14 PM EST

Edwards Asks Obama (none / 0)

Edwards uses his question to show his own qualities. But underestimates how easy it is for Obama to knock this one out of the park. Almost looked deliberately easy.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:01:21 PM EST

Brian Williams loses big. (none / 0)

Question are new and novel and MSNBC can't get its format down. That's worse than embarrassing.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:02:02 PM EST

: Excellent point (none / 0)

Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:04:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Wouldn't it be great (none / 0)

if all political debates were in this format of actual cross examination? The American political system would survive without Russ and Wolf.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:02:42 PM EST

: Candidates will need good coaches... (none / 0)

...to think about what makes for a good question.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:03:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Great question from Hillary. (none / 0)

Her question to Barack fuels her meme that she already works for change.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:03:24 PM EST

Clinton Asks Obama (none / 0)

Clinton uses her question to make a short speech on Iraq, being the first candidate to bring up that topic, she also mentions "legislation I have submitted" proving she is a workhorse. Then asks if Obama will co-sponsor.

Good double edged question. If he says yes, she is the leader and he goes along. If he says no she gets to the left of him on the war and Bush. Pretty sweet.

Obama doesn't clearly answer whether he will co-sponsor or not. Although he does get to mention that he was against the war from the beginning.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:04:29 PM EST

It took the actual candidates ... (none / 0)

... to mention "Iraq." BTW, Bill Kristol told me that we are winning there. He has written that every week since the invasion.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:06:26 PM EST

Clinton on Iraq (none / 0)

Good and bad. She looks down when she answers the first part of the question. That's bad.

She goes after the GOP candidates for the first time. That's good.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:07:17 PM EST

I think... (none / 0)

Obama and Edwards may be breaking up.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:08:55 PM EST

Obama wins exchange with Edwards (none / 0)

If Obama's goal was to diminish the difference between the two of them on Iraq - blunting Edwards' statement that "there are real differences here" - then I think he accomplished that.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:11:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: But was that a worthy goal? (none / 0)

At the risk of losing your question. He should have said, "this is not my question - play fair - now, John..."
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:12:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]

And a debate is breaking out (none / 0)

Surely the moderators will cut this off, and they do.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:09:23 PM EST

: Brian Williams can't catch up ... (none / 0)

to Russert if he cannot get back to making the debate about his questions.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:13:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ruled it a question? (none / 0)

If Williams rules that a question, then that really demonstrates moderator ineptness. They need to practice this before going on prime time. It now appears that that was his question. Obama clearly loses, because he doesn't get to ask his question.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:09:52 PM EST

Edwards need to hammer the base issue (none / 0)

Many anti war opponents feel that the presence of the permanent US military bases will preclude any political reconciliation in Iraq. Edwards seemed firm on that while Obama waffled and gave what I considered a non-answer. I have not heard Hillary ever disavow these permanent bases either. I would hammer that point if I were coaching Edwards. Instead, I am entering the fetal position again.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:12:14 PM EST

On the GOP side (none / 0)

Romney's win over McCain in Michigan was pretty strong tonight.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:13:31 PM EST

When you pour millions into a... (none / 0)

...targeted ad blitz, that will happen.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:14:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Iowa and New Hampshire disagree (none / 0)

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:16:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Feel the Mittmentum! (none / 0)

Interesting to see how much of Mitt's support was from Democrats voting for Mitt to help instill a longer, harder GOP race.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:15:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Hillary will enforce the ROTC rule? (none / 0)

What's her answer to the anti-gay position of don't ask, don't tell. She will compel universities to teach a particular and discriminatory course?

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:15:39 PM EST

: They all gave the same answer (none / 0)

I assume you are as critical of the other two.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:20:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Now she gives the opposite answer (none / 0)

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:16:00 PM EST

Coverstone needs more quals (none / 0)

in your quals line there.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:17:04 PM EST

: More is less...:) (none / 0)

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN
by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:18:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: my quals? (none / 0)

fetal position in the corner.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:19:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]

National service works (none / 0)

Obama injects national service idea nicely into this question, sufficiently dodging the double speak in Hillary's answer.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:17:41 PM EST

This whole ROTC question is a softball. (none / 0)

Of course they will vigorously enforce federal law and as Clinton says, there are lots of ways to meet that obligation. This is misspent time.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:17:52 PM EST

ROTC questions? (none / 0)

Really?

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:18:03 PM EST

ROTC and College Campuses (none / 0)

Another question on a burning issue from Russert. Thankfully the candidates effectively shift away from it.

Clinton switches to other aspects of treatment of troops. Comes up with an example of working with a GOP Senator to protect them. Agent of change. Gets in a good shot at the Bush Admin.

Obama also switches the topic to another aspect of troop treatment - fairness to rural areas. Strain on families. "I meet them every day" is use of observational examples for evidence. Talks about foreign services.

Edwards does a good job of pointing out other issues with veterans. Good use of multiple examples. His answer is the best on this question. But he did have more time to think about it.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:19:06 PM EST

Breadth of Subject Mastery (none / 0)

Seems like Hillary fixes almost everything on sub-prime mortgages, while Edwards connects it all to health care. Obama seems better able to address a range of causes and effects for problems.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:20:30 PM EST

: Really? (none / 0)

I don't think Clinton has focused inordinately on the mortgage crisis. She's mentioned it twice.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:23:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Hillary called Edwards "John" (none / 0)

Yet it is still "Senator Obama."

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:20:37 PM EST

: Good catch. (none / 0)

She has changed her referencing strategy. That makes it less likely that Obama needs to change his. I think she'd have been better with her tack in New Hampshire.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:22:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Walter Reed and Vets (none / 0)

Nice job by Obama injecting something he did, but Clinton has the bigger picture. She wins this follow up by a slim margin.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:21:20 PM EST

Missed opportunity (none / 0)

Obama says that billions spent on a mistake (Yucca Mtn) should not be made worse by spending more...A quick connection to Iraq here would have been pretty good too.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:22:22 PM EST

: NBC limits Iraq talk (none / 0)

I think it is one of their rules ... unless it is why the surge is working.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:24:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Look out (none / 0)

A debate is breaking out.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:24:26 PM EST

Hillary follow up (none / 0)

Slams Edwards on Yucca votes...His answer almost seems like I was for it before I was against it...

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:24:28 PM EST

John voted for Yucca twice. (none / 0)

Good follow up by Clinton. She does a better job moderating than Williams.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:24:41 PM EST

: Hillary understands the issues (none / 0)

I think that explains it.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:25:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]

How much does Russ pay for haircuts? (none / 0)

I hope it is under $300 or he should sue for malpractice.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:25:03 PM EST

Clinton: John voted for Yucca twice. (none / 0)

Good follow up by Clinton. She does a better job moderating than Williams.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:25:21 PM EST

Energy Bill, Nuclear Energy and Obama (none / 0)

Decent follow up from Russert, his first contribution to the policy issues.

Obama sounds a lot less anti-nuclear in this answer than his last one.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:26:08 PM EST

Guiliani is at 3%!!! (none / 0)

I am sure America's mayor will not be Kuciniched.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:26:45 PM EST

DICK CHENEY? (none / 0)

Is he still alive? What's he doing now?

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:27:11 PM EST

Energy Bill and Clinton (none / 0)

She was ready for this one. She brought this up in the last debate. A real soft ball for her. Ties it rhetorically to Cheney. Gets in her argument on how she fights special interests. Dick Cheney wrote the bill that Obama signed. She's been going after the "oil companies" since the Monday in New Hampshire.

Won't happen if we just "hope" for it. Look out.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:28:09 PM EST

Hillary connects Energy Bill (none / 0)

to an attack on Obama as if he were beholden to special interests just like Dick Cheney.

It's not going to happen by "hoping" for it, is a pretty cl;ever attack on Obama.

Solid win for Hillary on that Q.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:28:29 PM EST

Hillary is the better debater. (none / 0)

But, does it really matter? See Bush in 2004.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:29:13 PM EST

Global Warming and Edwards (none / 0)

He's really on the defensive on this issue. Gets back to one of his main points about campaign contributions. Although it opens the door for HRC to say this proves she'll advocate against the groups who give her money.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:30:07 PM EST

Apollo Moon Shot (none / 0)

sweet.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:31:27 PM EST

Conservation and Sacrifice (none / 0)

Good argument for Obama. He ties it in to his "kind of Presidential leadership" which is really smart.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:32:20 PM EST

Return of the GOTCHA! (none / 0)

Russert is now running victory laps against Williams.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:34:11 PM EST

No clear stock answer? (none / 0)

Edwards can't jam on English only out of the gate? He is running a generic immigration position (very defensive one, by the way).

Alexander, English law post at http://blogginvol.blogspot. com/2008/01/is-this-best-we -can-get.html

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:34:25 PM EST

: Agreed (none / 0)

Pretty surprised he wasn't better on that one.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:35:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]

One more thought on Obama (none / 0)

These debates don't really let Obama show off the strongest argument of his campaign - that he will change the tone, and bring us together. It is difficult to make that kind of argument in a debate about specific issues.

Debates really suit Clinton's campaign better, they are about specific policy issues and specific solutions. It's easier for Clinton to connect her points to her overall campaign argument.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:34:50 PM EST

Agreed, absolutely (none / 0)

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:35:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I'm not sure (none / 0)

Does Barack's rambling style suggest that he is contemplative -- especially as it contrasts the wily veteran Hillary's substantive style?

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:37:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I disagree. (none / 0)

Generally speaking, yes - you are right. But that points to a shortcoming in the Obama debate prep. He needs to be making that case in the context of public policy arguments of the debates. That would go a long way toward dispelling the "no substance" argument. A few, smart, well placed examples would help him immensely. They haven't connected those dots for voters.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:37:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Is this the TOC or NFL? (none / 0)

We assume this is more like the TOC. That may be an incorrect assumption.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:40:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Black and Brown Drop Outs (none / 0)

Obama saying both groups are suffering for the same reason (implicitly poverty?) opens the door for Clinton or Edwards to point out a difference in the way the two groups are discriminated against in early education programs. Will either one do that?

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:37:27 PM EST

Hillary is winning the flow (none / 0)

But is enough of the audience flowing or are they listening?

They were listening in 2004, in my opinion.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:38:25 PM EST

: If they are "listening" (none / 0)

Edwards might win this one.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:40:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Dropout rates (none / 0)

Early childhood education
Paying teachers more, adding profesional development
Move tests out of NCLB
After school programs

List is followed by the return to Presidential leadership.

Parents must take their jobs seriously - especially African-American fathers.

That's a big one that he is well positioned to speak on.

Hillary has started with families...?
She is commending Barack for her efforts, the 100 Black Men for the work she has done...Subtle enough or oddly egocentric and obviously so?

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:39:32 PM EST

Clinton Busts Russert (none / 0)

Her insistence on staying on a Black-Brown topic really makes her look strong and I would think would appeal to these groups. Her discussing a past tie to the 100 Black Men in the past is pandering, though.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:39:36 PM EST

: Agreed. (none / 0)

Yes, she is particularly good at this.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:41:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Uh oh, trouble for Clinton? (none / 0)

Saying the reality of politics will block gun control totally opens the door for Obama to say "see that's why we need to change the politics in this country." Let's see if he'll do it.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:41:27 PM EST

: Guess not (none / 0)

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN
by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:42:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: nope (none / 0)

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:42:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: Prescient! (none / 0)

I started writing this comment by saying he was close, but I think he actually finished. The problem is that he didn't close with the key words.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:43:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Looking down again (none / 0)

When Clinton is prevaricating she looks down. Someone needs to tip her off of her tell. She'd be bad at poker.

Well, Obama missed his chance. None of these candidates have the nerve to take on the NRA.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:42:45 PM EST

Not heading south... (none / 0)

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:44:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Not just the south (none / 0)

But Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, and Michigan.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:45:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Barack's style contrasts this well (none / 0)

Does this personify his call for a new vision of poltics because he is extemporaneous and not scripted?

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:44:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Harder Edge (none / 0)

I think Obama needs to be more specific and connect his brand of politics (or "post-politics") to how he will address specific issues. This is the weakness to the Hart/Tsongas/Bradley/Dean strategy that he has taken. It is strong thematically, but starts to fall apart when people are looking for credible solutions.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:47:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Reconciling two realities (none / 0)

That's where Obama is at his best. Needs to get there quicker.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:43:39 PM EST

Shameful (none / 0)

The Democratic Party is shameful when it comes to gun control.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:44:39 PM EST

So are the debate moderators. (none / 0)

Correct me if I am wrong, but are GOP candidates ever asked questions from a gun control perspective? I know the Mittster needs to prove his pro-gun bonafides.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:45:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]

They let GOP candidates get away (none / 0)

with opposing gun control laws by saying, "We don't need more laws, we need to enforce the laws we have." That's even worse than weak Dem answers. GOP gets to say, we don't need gun control because we need to enforce gun control.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:48:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Agreed (none / 0)

But Dems should be out in front on that.

The GOP answer of "enforce current laws" implies there is a choice between that and gun control, which there obviously isn't. Why can't the Dems just say that?

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:50:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Agreed (none / 0)

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN
by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:59:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Remember when the death penalty was a topic? (none / 0)

Not as important as the ROTC or English Only.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:47:37 PM EST

No governors on this stage (none / 0)

To brag about all the executions they have carried out.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:48:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Huckabee didn't kill enough (none / 0)

That's the arg on the other side, right?
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:50:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Too many commercials. (none / 0)

I suspect that the commercial breaks are contributing to the relative lack of disputation and easing the tension.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:48:07 PM EST

Brian Williams = clown (none / 0)

Exhibit Q.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:48:25 PM EST

Will she say (none / 0)

we need to smoke 'em out of their holes...?

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:49:57 PM EST

: Hillary was in New York on 9/11 (none / 0)

That's an obvious qualification.
by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:51:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: Politics of Fear (none / 0)

This scores points for Obama among the far left only (but they vote in primaries and caucuses). He's got Noam Chomsky locked up. To others it sounds like he's on both sides of the issue.
Clinton's answer on this is so-so. Her arguments make GOP talking points. Nice distinction between her view and Bush's "politicization of fear."
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:54:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Whoa! (none / 0)

Obama's first real attack on Clinton's use of 9-11.

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:52:30 PM EST

A tough angle (none / 0)

But, pretty well done to balance serious concern for "real threats" with a pretty direct attack on using the specter of terror to win political points.

He could make that answer tighter, but it is getting better.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:52:46 PM EST

: Agreed. (none / 0)

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:53:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: Yes, but Clinton's follow up (none / 0)

allowed her to refute the argument. He needed to jump in and respond to her here.
by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:54:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Kritik of politics of Fear (none / 0)

Barack needs to frame this as a disad. Civil liberties trade off as well as misdirected foreign policy priorities. He risks looking naive and, then, weal.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:53:10 PM EST

Russert? (none / 0)

That is exactly what she is saying. Now she gets to say, "NO WAY, BUT..."

They did test the new Brown. Experience matters. Need constant vigilence. No time off.

Can't say no to Russert's saving question and still make this point that we will be attacked while Obama reads the owner's manual on the oval office.

Moderator should call her on that not help her obfuscate.

Unfair.

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 10:54:47 PM EST

: Yes, but so too should Obama. (none / 0)

by Tim ODonnell on 01/15/2008 10:55:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Pakistan (none / 0)

Why ask a substantive question about addressing the Bush policy in the status quo when there is a GOTCHA! question available.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:55:26 PM EST

Musharraf talking to Edwards (none / 0)

I wondered too, why Musharraf would take the time to call Edwards, who isn't even a sitting Senator. And why in the world would Edwards think he should be bothering Musharraf at that time?

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:56:15 PM EST

Why do you all want to be Homecoming King or Queen (none / 0)

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:57:48 PM EST

Barack thinks his children are just above average! (none / 0)

Cue next debate: did you really mean that? We reject humor when it can be spun as a GOTCHA! moment.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 10:59:17 PM EST

Not much of a debate (none / 0)

Hardly any clash or questions to draw out the differences between the two candidates.

We did learn they would all enforce the ROTC law, though.

Steve Mancuso

by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 10:59:33 PM EST

Yes, by pointing out that there are (none / 0)

ways around it...

Alan Coverstone, Debate Coach, Government Teacher, and Academic Dean Montgomery Bell Academy Nashville, TN

by Coverstone on 01/15/2008 11:00:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

How did this compare to previous debates? (none / 0)

I have not followed the others as closely.

by seaver on 01/15/2008 11:03:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Hard to generalize (none / 0)

Well, of course some of the other debates have their equally ridiculous media self-absorptive moments. But there have been some occasional well-reasoned and demonstrated differences on issues like health care.
Steve Mancuso
by SPMinOHIO on 01/15/2008 11:04:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]